TrustTalk - It's all about Trust

In this episode, Dominika Latusek from Kozminski University in Warsaw, Poland, talks about trust in business partnerships and why it doesn’t always work the way we expect. While trust can help buyers and suppliers work well together, it doesn’t always match reality. Sometimes companies keep trusting a partner even when performance is poor, and other times, they remain sceptical despite good results. She explains that trust between companies is based on two things: competence (can they do the job?) and goodwill (do they have good intentions?). To help businesses understand whether their trust in a partner is justified, she developed a tool that measures trust, perceived performance, and satisfaction. This tool helps companies spot warning signs before problems arise. Dominika also warns that long-term partnerships can lead to complacency, where companies stick with familiar partners instead of looking for better opportunities. She discusses “hostage arrangements,” like shared investments, that make it costly for businesses to break trust. But if trust only exists because of financial ties, is it really trust? This episode challenges common ideas about trust in business and highlights why companies should regularly check whether their partnerships are truly working in their favor.

Is trust in experts really declining, or is it just changing? In this episode, Gil Eyal, sociology professor at Columbia University, challenges the popular idea that people are losing trust in science and expertise. Instead, he argues that trust exists in tension with blind faith on one side and skepticism on the other. Trust isn't just about believing in experts—it’s about knowing when to trust and when to question. A key theme of the discussion is the role of time in building and eroding trust. Eyal explains that trust is not a one-time decision but a process that unfolds over time. He introduces the concept of timing in trust, showing how it matters when trust is given, how long it takes to build, and how quickly it can collapse when betrayed. Trust in institutions, for example, is accumulated through repeated positive interactions but can be destroyed in an instant by a single failure or scandal. This is why governments, companies, and even personal relationships must continuously maintain trust—because it is never fully secured. Using the example of choosing a flight, Eyal illustrates the difference between routinized trust, where we simply assume things will work, and informed anticipation, where we actively evaluate risks based on past experience. This distinction, he argues, is crucial in understanding how modern society navigates trust in science, medicine, and politics. He also explores how expertise has become deeply entangled with politics, making public confidence in institutions more fragile than ever. He explains why mistrust isn’t necessarily a problem, it’s often a rational response to systems that have historically failed certain groups. He highlights research on long Covid patients, showing how their trust in doctors is shaped by personal experiences, rather than blind faith in medical authority. A particularly provocative argument Eyal makes is that trust itself has become commercialized. Consulting firms, governments, and corporations actively sell trust as a product, offering frameworks and training to "restore trust" in workplaces and institutions. But does all this talk about trust deepen the crisis instead of solving it?

In this episode, Manny Teodoro, author of The Profits of Distrust, explores the deep connection between trust in tap water and trust in government. He explains how public distrust grows when water systems fail, as seen in the Flint Water Crisis, and how this distrust forces many, particularly low-income and minority communities, to turn to expensive bottled water. Manny emphasizes that restoring trust in public water systems requires governments to take clear and deliberate actions. Transparency is key—governments need to openly share how water is treated and explain the steps taken to ensure safety. Proactively engaging with communities, addressing their concerns, and demonstrating a commitment to improving water quality can break the cycle of distrust. He highlights three essential elements for rebuilding trust: excellence in delivering high-quality and reliable services, openness in sharing transparent information, and equity in ensuring fair access to safe water for all. This conversation highlights how public institutions can rebuild confidence through visible action, fairness, and honest communication, ensuring access to safe and affordable water for everyone.

Today’s guest, Tina Øllgaard Bentzen, a researcher at Roskilde University in Denmark, explores the nuanced relationship between trust and control. Specializing in trust-based management, Tina challenges the assumption that control erodes trust. Instead, she explains how thoughtfully designed control systems can coexist with trust, fostering innovation, collaboration, and accountability. Drawing on Scandinavian public organizations, Tina highlights how trust-based management shifts the focus from rigid oversight to empowering employees through autonomy and intrinsic motivation. Tina describes trust as a "magic concept"—a powerful yet abstract idea driving organizational change. By using trust as a framework to critically evaluate and reshape control systems, organizations across Denmark and Scandinavia have developed approaches that enhance trust rather than erode it. For instance, Danish municipalities have replaced rigid purchaser-provider models with collaborative frameworks that engage employees and improve outcomes. A central theme of the conversation is whether granting more autonomy weakens control or strengthens trust. Tina argues that autonomy, when paired with accountability and co-created control systems, can reinforce trust. However, she acknowledges the challenges, particularly for employees unaccustomed to navigating greater freedom. Leaders must actively address trust breaches and provide support to create an environment where trust and control complement one another. Looking to the future, Tina discusses how global challenges like fiscal pressures and workforce retention are shaping trust-based reforms. She highlights examples from the COVID-19 crisis, where granting trust during uncertainty spurred innovative solutions, such as Denmark’s outdoor teaching and online schooling.

Our guest today is John Blakey, author of Force for Good, to explore how leaders can embrace a purpose-driven approach to build trust, inspire teams, and create lasting impact in a skeptical world. John discusses the transformative power of leadership centered on values and purpose, moving beyond traditional profit-driven models to foster deeper connections and resilience. Drawing on his practical framework, he shares insights into the “UP, IN, and OUT” dimensions of leadership, guiding leaders to connect with their purpose, maintain personal motivation and well-being, and inspire trust among their teams. The conversation addresses the challenges leaders face in today’s postmodern landscape, where skepticism and mistrust often dominate, and emphasizes how intentional actions can bridge trust deficits. With practical tools like purpose journaling, value alignment, and random acts of kindness, John offers a clear and engaging guide for leaders seeking to navigate complexity and motivate others authentically. This episode sheds light on what it means to lead with integrity and purpose, providing useful strategies for anyone aspiring to become a force for good in an ever-changing world.

In this episode of TrustTalk, my guest explores the fragile dynamics of trust in today’s world of shifting alliances and escalating global tensions. With Richard Ned Lebow, emeritus professor of international political theory at King’s College London, we dive into the critical questions shaping our era: Can NATO hold firm in the face of unprecedented challenges? Will Europe step up to redefine its role in global security? How do rising tensions between China and Taiwan and the ongoing conflicts in Ukraine, Israel, and Gaza reshape the landscape of international trust? For those intrigued by the interplay of politics, war, and peace, this conversation offers sharp insights and historical perspectives illuminating how alliances are forged and fractured. Ned Lebow reflects on the lessons of history, from Cold War divisions to the present-day struggles for strategic autonomy in Europe, providing a roadmap for navigating the complexities of international trust in an increasingly unstable era. If you’re passionate about understanding the forces shaping our world—whether it’s the push and pull of diplomacy, the challenges of leadership, or the role of trust in global cooperation—this episode is for you. Join us as we explore what’s at stake for peace, security, and the future of international alliances in these turbulent times.

In episode 102 we meet Adam Seligman Professor of Religion at Boston University He talks about the profound dynamics of trust, religion, and human rights in today’s society. Seligman, a prominent thinker in religion and social theory, shares his insights on the difference between trust and confidence. Confidence, he explains, is based on predictability and the security of known outcomes, whereas trust is a leap into the unknown, requiring a willingness to take risks and embrace uncertainty. Trust, he argues, requires humility and an openness to others’ perspectives. Adam reflects on how religious communities traditionally provide a shared basis for confidence through common rituals, beliefs, and practices. Beyond this, religion introduces a “vertical axis” of meaning, linking individuals to something greater than themselves, which allows them to trust those beyond their immediate circles. He explores how this orientation fosters trust across boundaries and strengthens communal bonds. Addressing current challenges, he expresses concern over the entanglement of religion and politics, particularly where nationalism and religious identity merge. This fusion, seen in various countries, often intensifies divisions, fostering exclusion and mistrust rather than unity. He points to examples in Israel, the United States, and India, suggesting that this trend risks further polarizing societies. Adam also critiques the Western emphasis on individual rights, arguing that this focus can overlook the human need for belonging and community. In discussing his article The Tragedy of Human Rights, co-authored with David Montgomery, he explains that while human rights are essential, they often privilege individual autonomy over collective well-being. He shares an example from Uganda, where local communities prioritized reintegrating former child soldiers to promote communal healing, contrasting with Western approaches that focus on punitive justice. Reflecting on modern society’s complexity, he notes that the many roles people assume today—such as family members, professionals, and community participants—allow for "hiding" different parts of themselves, which was less common in smaller, more tightly-knit communities. This complexity makes trust more necessary, yet more challenging to achieve, as shared understanding and common values are increasingly fragmented by social media and individualism. Adam concludes by portraying trust as a “generative” force that can build new futures, not only on a personal level but also with political implications. Through his work with CEDAR, an NGO focused on community engagement across differences, he shares how an openness to others can bridge divides, foster social resilience, and reduce conflict.

In this episode of TrustTalk, we talk with Anne de Graaf, Corporate Affairs Director at Heineken Cambodia. Drawing from her extensive experience in finance, diplomacy, and leadership, Anne shares her unique perspectives on the role of trust in international business and cross-cultural environments. We explore how trust is built over time, not as a simple transaction, but as a complex, deeply personal process. Anne also discusses the importance of body language in fostering trust, the role of curiosity in high-stakes negotiations, and how cultural differences impact leadership and relationships. She offers a powerful analogy comparing trust to music, emphasizing the significance of pauses—moments that allow relationships and trust to grow. Join us as Anne reflects on her career journey, from working in European diplomatic circles to leading teams at Heineken Cambodia, highlighting the importance of authenticity, relationships, and intuition in leadership. This insightful conversation sheds light on how trust can bridge gaps across cultures and lead to meaningful, sustainable outcomes.

In this milestone episode, Andrea Evers, Professor of Health Psychology at Leiden University, joins us to discuss her expertise on the placebo effect and its significant relationship to trust in healthcare. Andrea explores how patient expectations and trust can shape surprising medical outcomes and influence trust in doctors and the broader doctor-patient relationship. She explains how the placebo effect is more than just a "sugar pill" and emphasizes the power of positive expectations for enhancing the impact of real medical treatments. Andrea also discusses the important role that communication and the environment of care play in boosting or diminishing these effects. Listeners will learn how trust, both in past experiences and in current healthcare providers, plays a critical role in how patients respond to treatments. Finally, Andrea touches on future research opportunities, including how the placebo effect can be better integrated into clinical practice to improve patient outcomes and reduce medication use. This insightful conversation offers a deep dive into the psychology of medicine and the vital role trust plays in healing.

Our guest for episode 99 is Frédérique Six, Associate Professor of Public Governance at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam and a visiting professor at the GOVTRUST Centre of Excellence at the University of Antwerp. She explores the complex relationship between trust and control within organizations, particularly those that perform public tasks such as healthcare, education, and policing. She explains two main perspectives on the relationship between trust and control. The traditional view sees them as substitutes, where more control means less trust, and vice versa. However, she advocates for a more nuanced view, where trust and control can complement each other. When controls are experienced as enabling rather than coercive, they help build trust by promoting fairness, predictability, and ethical behavior. She also discusses her use of motivation theory, which distinguishes between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. According to this theory, employees perform better when their basic psychological needs—autonomy, competence, and relatedness—are met. Frédérique explains how these needs are influenced by control systems and how this balance affects both trust and motivation within organizations. Frédérique highlights the multifaceted nature of trust, noting that it is context-dependent but guided by a universal sequence: a trustor assesses the trustworthiness of a trustee and decides whether to take a trusting action based on that assessment. She explains that while trust is influenced by situational factors, there are common elements across different contexts, which makes trust a universal yet complex phenomenon. As the discussion concludes, Frédérique reflects on the challenges faced by young researchers studying trust. She believes that identifying and challenging deeply held beliefs about trust and control will be crucial for advancing trust-based governance. While this is high-risk research, she encourages young professionals to question the status quo to drive meaningful change.