TrustTalk - It's all about Trust

Our guest today is Joel Brockner, a professor at Columbia Business School. He discusses the crucial role of procedural fairness in building trust. He explains that trust isn’t just about delivering results—it’s also about how decisions are made. When people feel treated fairly, they are more likely to accept difficult outcomes, whether in the workplace or beyond. Joel highlights that leaders often assume they act fairly, but employees may perceive things differently. Research shows that workers who feel disrespected during layoffs are 17 times more likely to sue, and similar patterns exist in medical malpractice cases. He stresses that clear, respectful communication and follow-up are key to ensuring fairness is both real and perceived. The discussion also explores trust and control, noting that leaders who involve employees in decision-making and explain their reasoning gain more engagement. Joel warns that job insecurity and uncertainty make fairness even more important, as people become highly sensitive to how they are treated during tough times. With the rise of remote work and AI-driven decisions, fairness challenges are growing. Remote employees may feel disconnected, and algorithm-based decisions can seem opaque. Leaders must actively communicate, clarify processes, and ensure transparency to maintain trust in these evolving environments. Joel’s key takeaway: Fairness is an investment that prevents bigger problems later. Leaders who cut corners on transparency and respect may save time in the short term, but they risk distrust, resistance, and legal issues in the long run. His advice? “Pay a little now, or pay a lot later.”

Our guest today is Zeke Hernandez, author of "The Truth About Immigration”. He powerfully challenges the myths and fears surrounding immigration, revealing the human stories and everyday realities behind the headlines. He argues that immigrants are often unfairly blamed for societal issues like crime, unemployment, and housing shortages, not because of facts but because of political narratives and media distortions that fuel fear. Hernandez explains that people often distrust immigrants simply because they don’t know them. Those who have little or no personal contact are more likely to believe stereotypes, while those who live and work alongside immigrants see them as neighbors, colleagues, and friends. They see them raising children, working hard, and contributing to their communities. Hernandez passionately illustrates how immigrants are woven into the fabric of our daily lives. He paints a vivid picture, asking listeners to think about their day—from breakfast to bedtime. The foods on our tables, the music that moves us, and the products we buy are all enriched by immigrant contributions. If we removed foods introduced by immigrants, more than half of our grocery carts would be empty. The music that makes us dance, cry, and celebrate—whether salsa, rock, or hip-hop—owes its vibrancy to immigrant cultures. Immigrants shape our tastes, our sounds, and our experiences, making life richer and more colorful. Challenging the notion that immigrants compete with native-born workers, Hernandez reveals the opposite: they complement the workforce, making economies stronger and more innovative. He shares compelling evidence that immigrants are more likely to start businesses, create new jobs, and drive technological advances. They pay more in taxes than they receive in public services, giving back to the very communities that sometimes fear them. Hernandez argues that the debate on immigration shouldn’t be about insiders versus outsiders but about seeing immigrants for who they truly are—people who bring hope, hard work, and heart to our societies. He criticizes the common narrative that frames immigrants as victims needing help, pointing out that this approach is politically ineffective and patronizing. Instead, he urges us to see immigration through a new lens—not as charity or humanitarian aid but as an economic opportunity that benefits everyone. He emphasizes that immigrants bring investment, innovation, and energy, helping economies grow and societies thrive. By recognizing the value immigrants add, we move beyond a narrative of pity or fear and toward one of shared prosperity. He shares the personal story of an undocumented barber in Philadelphia—an incredibly talented man with $200,000 saved to start his own business but unable to do so because of his legal status. This isn’t just about one man’s dream; it’s about the potential we lose when we reduce immigrants to stereotypes or political pawns. It’s about the jobs not created, the taxes not paid, and the communities not enriched because of restrictive immigration policies. Through his passionate words and powerful stories, Hernandez invites us to rethink the way we see immigration—not as a problem to be solved but as an opportunity to be embraced.  

In this episode, Dominika Latusek from Kozminski University in Warsaw, Poland, talks about trust in business partnerships and why it doesn’t always work the way we expect. While trust can help buyers and suppliers work well together, it doesn’t always match reality. Sometimes companies keep trusting a partner even when performance is poor, and other times, they remain sceptical despite good results. She explains that trust between companies is based on two things: competence (can they do the job?) and goodwill (do they have good intentions?). To help businesses understand whether their trust in a partner is justified, she developed a tool that measures trust, perceived performance, and satisfaction. This tool helps companies spot warning signs before problems arise. Dominika also warns that long-term partnerships can lead to complacency, where companies stick with familiar partners instead of looking for better opportunities. She discusses “hostage arrangements,” like shared investments, that make it costly for businesses to break trust. But if trust only exists because of financial ties, is it really trust? This episode challenges common ideas about trust in business and highlights why companies should regularly check whether their partnerships are truly working in their favor.

Is trust in experts really declining, or is it just changing? In this episode, Gil Eyal, sociology professor at Columbia University, challenges the popular idea that people are losing trust in science and expertise. Instead, he argues that trust exists in tension with blind faith on one side and skepticism on the other. Trust isn't just about believing in experts—it’s about knowing when to trust and when to question. A key theme of the discussion is the role of time in building and eroding trust. Eyal explains that trust is not a one-time decision but a process that unfolds over time. He introduces the concept of timing in trust, showing how it matters when trust is given, how long it takes to build, and how quickly it can collapse when betrayed. Trust in institutions, for example, is accumulated through repeated positive interactions but can be destroyed in an instant by a single failure or scandal. This is why governments, companies, and even personal relationships must continuously maintain trust—because it is never fully secured. Using the example of choosing a flight, Eyal illustrates the difference between routinized trust, where we simply assume things will work, and informed anticipation, where we actively evaluate risks based on past experience. This distinction, he argues, is crucial in understanding how modern society navigates trust in science, medicine, and politics. He also explores how expertise has become deeply entangled with politics, making public confidence in institutions more fragile than ever. He explains why mistrust isn’t necessarily a problem, it’s often a rational response to systems that have historically failed certain groups. He highlights research on long Covid patients, showing how their trust in doctors is shaped by personal experiences, rather than blind faith in medical authority. A particularly provocative argument Eyal makes is that trust itself has become commercialized. Consulting firms, governments, and corporations actively sell trust as a product, offering frameworks and training to "restore trust" in workplaces and institutions. But does all this talk about trust deepen the crisis instead of solving it?

In this episode, Manny Teodoro, author of The Profits of Distrust, explores the deep connection between trust in tap water and trust in government. He explains how public distrust grows when water systems fail, as seen in the Flint Water Crisis, and how this distrust forces many, particularly low-income and minority communities, to turn to expensive bottled water. Manny emphasizes that restoring trust in public water systems requires governments to take clear and deliberate actions. Transparency is key—governments need to openly share how water is treated and explain the steps taken to ensure safety. Proactively engaging with communities, addressing their concerns, and demonstrating a commitment to improving water quality can break the cycle of distrust. He highlights three essential elements for rebuilding trust: excellence in delivering high-quality and reliable services, openness in sharing transparent information, and equity in ensuring fair access to safe water for all. This conversation highlights how public institutions can rebuild confidence through visible action, fairness, and honest communication, ensuring access to safe and affordable water for everyone.

Today’s guest, Tina Øllgaard Bentzen, a researcher at Roskilde University in Denmark, explores the nuanced relationship between trust and control. Specializing in trust-based management, Tina challenges the assumption that control erodes trust. Instead, she explains how thoughtfully designed control systems can coexist with trust, fostering innovation, collaboration, and accountability. Drawing on Scandinavian public organizations, Tina highlights how trust-based management shifts the focus from rigid oversight to empowering employees through autonomy and intrinsic motivation. Tina describes trust as a "magic concept"—a powerful yet abstract idea driving organizational change. By using trust as a framework to critically evaluate and reshape control systems, organizations across Denmark and Scandinavia have developed approaches that enhance trust rather than erode it. For instance, Danish municipalities have replaced rigid purchaser-provider models with collaborative frameworks that engage employees and improve outcomes. A central theme of the conversation is whether granting more autonomy weakens control or strengthens trust. Tina argues that autonomy, when paired with accountability and co-created control systems, can reinforce trust. However, she acknowledges the challenges, particularly for employees unaccustomed to navigating greater freedom. Leaders must actively address trust breaches and provide support to create an environment where trust and control complement one another. Looking to the future, Tina discusses how global challenges like fiscal pressures and workforce retention are shaping trust-based reforms. She highlights examples from the COVID-19 crisis, where granting trust during uncertainty spurred innovative solutions, such as Denmark’s outdoor teaching and online schooling.

Our guest today is John Blakey, author of Force for Good, to explore how leaders can embrace a purpose-driven approach to build trust, inspire teams, and create lasting impact in a skeptical world. John discusses the transformative power of leadership centered on values and purpose, moving beyond traditional profit-driven models to foster deeper connections and resilience. Drawing on his practical framework, he shares insights into the “UP, IN, and OUT” dimensions of leadership, guiding leaders to connect with their purpose, maintain personal motivation and well-being, and inspire trust among their teams. The conversation addresses the challenges leaders face in today’s postmodern landscape, where skepticism and mistrust often dominate, and emphasizes how intentional actions can bridge trust deficits. With practical tools like purpose journaling, value alignment, and random acts of kindness, John offers a clear and engaging guide for leaders seeking to navigate complexity and motivate others authentically. This episode sheds light on what it means to lead with integrity and purpose, providing useful strategies for anyone aspiring to become a force for good in an ever-changing world.

In this episode of TrustTalk, my guest explores the fragile dynamics of trust in today’s world of shifting alliances and escalating global tensions. With Richard Ned Lebow, emeritus professor of international political theory at King’s College London, we dive into the critical questions shaping our era: Can NATO hold firm in the face of unprecedented challenges? Will Europe step up to redefine its role in global security? How do rising tensions between China and Taiwan and the ongoing conflicts in Ukraine, Israel, and Gaza reshape the landscape of international trust? For those intrigued by the interplay of politics, war, and peace, this conversation offers sharp insights and historical perspectives illuminating how alliances are forged and fractured. Ned Lebow reflects on the lessons of history, from Cold War divisions to the present-day struggles for strategic autonomy in Europe, providing a roadmap for navigating the complexities of international trust in an increasingly unstable era. If you’re passionate about understanding the forces shaping our world—whether it’s the push and pull of diplomacy, the challenges of leadership, or the role of trust in global cooperation—this episode is for you. Join us as we explore what’s at stake for peace, security, and the future of international alliances in these turbulent times.

In episode 102 we meet Adam Seligman Professor of Religion at Boston University He talks about the profound dynamics of trust, religion, and human rights in today’s society. Seligman, a prominent thinker in religion and social theory, shares his insights on the difference between trust and confidence. Confidence, he explains, is based on predictability and the security of known outcomes, whereas trust is a leap into the unknown, requiring a willingness to take risks and embrace uncertainty. Trust, he argues, requires humility and an openness to others’ perspectives. Adam reflects on how religious communities traditionally provide a shared basis for confidence through common rituals, beliefs, and practices. Beyond this, religion introduces a “vertical axis” of meaning, linking individuals to something greater than themselves, which allows them to trust those beyond their immediate circles. He explores how this orientation fosters trust across boundaries and strengthens communal bonds. Addressing current challenges, he expresses concern over the entanglement of religion and politics, particularly where nationalism and religious identity merge. This fusion, seen in various countries, often intensifies divisions, fostering exclusion and mistrust rather than unity. He points to examples in Israel, the United States, and India, suggesting that this trend risks further polarizing societies. Adam also critiques the Western emphasis on individual rights, arguing that this focus can overlook the human need for belonging and community. In discussing his article The Tragedy of Human Rights, co-authored with David Montgomery, he explains that while human rights are essential, they often privilege individual autonomy over collective well-being. He shares an example from Uganda, where local communities prioritized reintegrating former child soldiers to promote communal healing, contrasting with Western approaches that focus on punitive justice. Reflecting on modern society’s complexity, he notes that the many roles people assume today—such as family members, professionals, and community participants—allow for "hiding" different parts of themselves, which was less common in smaller, more tightly-knit communities. This complexity makes trust more necessary, yet more challenging to achieve, as shared understanding and common values are increasingly fragmented by social media and individualism. Adam concludes by portraying trust as a “generative” force that can build new futures, not only on a personal level but also with political implications. Through his work with CEDAR, an NGO focused on community engagement across differences, he shares how an openness to others can bridge divides, foster social resilience, and reduce conflict.

In this episode of TrustTalk, we talk with Anne de Graaf, Corporate Affairs Director at Heineken Cambodia. Drawing from her extensive experience in finance, diplomacy, and leadership, Anne shares her unique perspectives on the role of trust in international business and cross-cultural environments. We explore how trust is built over time, not as a simple transaction, but as a complex, deeply personal process. Anne also discusses the importance of body language in fostering trust, the role of curiosity in high-stakes negotiations, and how cultural differences impact leadership and relationships. She offers a powerful analogy comparing trust to music, emphasizing the significance of pauses—moments that allow relationships and trust to grow. Join us as Anne reflects on her career journey, from working in European diplomatic circles to leading teams at Heineken Cambodia, highlighting the importance of authenticity, relationships, and intuition in leadership. This insightful conversation sheds light on how trust can bridge gaps across cultures and lead to meaningful, sustainable outcomes.